Gary Myers: Hi, my name is Gary Myers.
Joe Fontenot: And I'm Joe Fontenot.
Gary Myers: And we're the hosts of the Answering the Call Podcast.
Joe Fontenot: And this is the podcast where we talk to people who are answering God's call. Women play a unique role in ministry, but if a woman's husband is also a pastor, her role as a pastor's wife can add an extra challenge.
Gary Myers: Today Marilyn talks with Dr. Tara Dew about the challenges of handling criticism and what to do when life brings the unexpected. While women face these questions as pastor's wives, these are important questions every woman will face regardless of her ministry position.
Joe Fontenot: That's right. And so here is Marilyn and Tara Dew.
Marilyn Stewart: All right, Tara. I'm so glad to have this chance to talk with you. You are very busy and we are again, very glad that you and Jamie and your family are here on campus with us. So before we get into some things, I want to talk today about just life as a minister's wife, dealing with some of those challenges, but I wanted to just ask you, I can imagine that rest and relaxation is kind of hard for you all to find at times. So what do you like to do personally, that gives you time for yourself, or that gives you a little bit of rest?
Tara Dew: Well, Marilyn, thank you for having me today. I'm so glad I live here with you.
Marilyn Stewart: I'm delighted.
Tara Dew: And you're right, the pace of this new role has been more intense than any other ministry that we have been a part of, but I'm thankful because I think over the last 20 years of ministry, God has just gradually added more to our plates. And so looking back, I can see how He has trained us and prepared us for the role we find ourselves in. But I have to tell you, I think in ministry, God is asking for our intentionality. So many people ask me, "Well, how do you balance everything?" And I said, "Balance is actually a really hard word because when you picture balance, you picture a scale where there's one thing on one side and one thing on the other and when you give more time to one, the other one suffers and vice versa."
Tara Dew: And as I was thinking about that I often think when we ask somebody, how do you balance family and ministry, or rest in ministry? It's saying that they're at odds with one another. And if you give yourself to one, then you're going to be neglecting the other. And so I really like the word intentionality because to do something with intention means you do it with planning and with purpose. And I have looked at people who are busy and who do a lot of things with influence and one thing I realize is that we're all given the same amount of time. It's how we use that time. And we plan for things that are important to us. So when you are intentional with your marriage, with your family, with rest and truly taking a Sabbath, then you're going to plan for those things.
Marilyn Stewart: Excellent point.
Tara Dew: And so in the Dew family, here's a few things that we do that helps us in this lifestyle we find ourselves in. The first thing I think that we do is we have family dinner together, as much as we possibly can. The dinner table is the place where after the end of a busy day, we all come back together and we often play the high, low game where we say a low from the day, a high from the day, you kind of go around and hear things.
Marilyn Stewart: Oh that's great.
Tara Dew: Growing up the dinner table was so important to my family and I can remember us sitting around the table so many at nights talking, and as we got older, those conversations grew longer and longer around the dinner table. But I read a study that just talked about so much the importance of the dinner table and everything that can come back to it, from self-esteem, to high grades, to eating disorders or lack there, of drugs, alcohol involvement, the dinner table, it impacts so many things. And they actually interviewed prisoners and one thing that all the prisoners had in common was they never shared a meal around the dinner table with their family.
Marilyn Stewart: Is that right? That's very interesting to me and my family had that too. And of course, back in the day, many mothers didn't work away from the home.
Tara Dew: That's right.
Marilyn Stewart: And so we do have to kind of prioritize and be intentional. And I want to ask you this since we're talking about dinner, so does the meal have to be, does it have to be fancy?
Tara Dew: No. No. I tell people often I am a very simple cook. I love the things that have like less than five ingredients. I use my crock pot all the time, my Instapot, oh my gosh, it's changed my life. You can cook baked potatoes in 18 minutes. So I often do very simple meals. It does not have to be fancy. You can even go get McDonald's or Canes and bring it back and sit around the table together. It does not have to be fancy, but I'll tell you one thing. I had a one a wise woman tell me one time, she said when your kids are little light a candle, and she said, it's amazing they actually will sit longer if you light a candle.
Marilyn Stewart: Oh, isn't that interesting.
Tara Dew: And so we started lighting a candle at dinner time when the kids were little, one and two, and we would say, "You can blow out the candle, whoever has the best manners." Well, let me tell you Marilyn, it was like we were giving them a million dollars. And so the great thing is if you've got four kids with good manners, well, then you just light that candle four times. You can relight it for whoever needs to blow it out, but that is still something to this day that we do and it can take the most simple meal and make it so special. And it's just lighting a candle.
Marilyn Stewart: Yes, that's a great idea.
Tara Dew: Sometimes we'll even play some just instrumental piano music in the background. I've got four kiddos who play the piano. So you can take simple things. You could even be eating on paper plates, but the process of gathering around the table, I want to say that's probably daily the thing that we do that centers our family. Another way that we really find rest Marilyn, is we love camping.
Marilyn Stewart: Yes, I thought you might say that.
Tara Dew: And so once a month, depending on where Jamie is speaking, I find a campground near wherever church it is that he's preaching at and we will spend Friday night and Saturday night in the campground. And there is something so settling to your soul to be in creation, under the stars.
Marilyn Stewart: To be outside.
Tara Dew: To be outside where it's just you and your family and the Lord. We have the best conversations around the campfire or going sleep at night under the stars. I mean, it's just really special. So for our family, those are two ways that I think we find rest in the middle of a crazy schedule.
Marilyn Stewart: That's interesting. I think that's fabulous. And I do you want to say this, this show is not about me, but I have to do a little bit of confession here because we tried to have that family meal all the time when my kids were young, now they're grown and married and they come back home and I'm doing more cooking than I ever did. And they said, "Where'd this cooking come from Mom? How come you didn't do this when we were little Mom?" And so we tried to just simply put something on the table, whether it was fish sticks or a hot dog, it's just so we can spend time together.
Tara Dew: That's exactly right.
Marilyn Stewart: So we do want to, and I know your heart is there to encourage women not to be the best mom on the block, the best cook, the best of this or that but to be the woman God made you to be.
Tara Dew: That's right. That's right. I think God calls us, Marilyn, to be faithful with whatever God has put on our plates for that day. And I think sometimes as women, we play the comparison game. We see what other women are doing. And God has put before each of us a path and a race that He's called us to run. And there are women around us that are moving with us toward that goal, but I think we're called to set our minds on Christ, set our eyes on him and be faithful for what He has called us to today.
Marilyn Stewart: Absolutely.
Tara Dew: And so many times I feel like in motherhood, I love in Proverbs in 31 where, it says blessed is the woman, but that really captures the idea of happiness. And I want to encourage mamas to be happy with what God's given them. This is for a fleeting season. The kiddos grow up so fast.
Marilyn Stewart: It really is.
Tara Dew: And so when your kids look back, will they say you're a happy mom, or are you just a mom who's just stressed out to the max? And so that's one thing that I try to do is just add in happy moments with your kids, whether that's dancing in the kitchen as you're cooking or making chores fun by blasting worship music or being silly together, we love telling jokes or watching funny YouTube videos. And we just laugh together because I want them to remember, my mom was a happy mom doing what she's called to. So I think just being faithful will give you a joy because you realize this is where God has me and I want to be faithful in this and be happy with the race He's put before me.
Marilyn Stewart: Now that brings me to a question that I would like to ask you because all of us as women, we struggle from time to time with, life isn't what I thought it would be. It's not what I expect it to be. And it may be that having that church is not quite what she thought, the job, even raising a baby or being married, there's going to be some tough times. So I wanted to talk with you about that. And just things maybe that a woman can do, or a parent, a single woman could do, to deal with life when it's unexpected, when your dream maybe doesn't come true.
Tara Dew: Yes. Well, if 2020 has taught us anything, is that we're living in unexpected times, but I've thought a lot about expectations over the years, Marilyn. And I feel like no matter whether we think it or not, every situation we come into, we have expectations of what it's going to be like.
Marilyn Stewart: That's true.
Tara Dew: And oftentimes what we thought it was going to be like, and what it is, are different.
Marilyn Stewart: That's a lot of the problem, isn't it?
Tara Dew: Yes, that's right. And so anything, marriage, family, parenting, jobs, ministry, you fill in the blank, we come into it with an expectation and then when we find that it's not what we thought it was that often can lead to depression or isolation or insecurities. But I've often tried to remind myself different does not equal bad. Because we come to something and we think, well, this is different than what I thought. And we go to the fact that, well, then this is just bad. But when you can come to a situation, you can realize no different just means different. It doesn't mean bad. And it comes back to who's in control? Where do you put your trust? Where is your hope? Our God knows yesterday, today and forever. Nothing has caught him by surprise. And when we find ourselves with expectations, we often find that, well, we were trying to control something to make it be what we wanted it to be.
Tara Dew: But if 2020 has taught us anything, it's that we're not in control. And there is freedom when you take your hands off and you say, "God, you are God and I am not. And this is not what I thought it was going to be but I trust you. And I trust that this hasn't caught you by surprise. This is not out of your sphere of authority or influence. This is different than my expectations, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Help me to find joy in this situation and to trust you." And Marilyn, I think one way that we do this, especially as women is when we lay our heads on the pillow at night, I talked to so many women who say, "I can't sleep. My mind, I can't turn it off. I've got all these things that I'm trying to do." And I read in a book one time that rest can actually be an act of worship. And it has changed how I think about sleeping.
Marilyn Stewart: That's interesting. I've not ever heard that before.
Tara Dew: Yes. And what the author was saying, it's in the book, Humble Roots by Hannah Anderson. And she, one whole chapter is on rest. And the passage in Matthew, where Jesus says, "Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy-laden and I will give you rest." It is a simple command to come, nothing that we have to do, but come to him. But when we lay our heads on the pillow at night and we fall asleep, I say, every night when I'm going to bed, "God, you are God and I am not. I can lay down and rest knowing that you created me as a finite creature who needs rest, who needs to recharge, who needs sleep. But you don't, you are God that does not need to rest. You never sleep or slumber. You are in control at all times." And so oftentimes putting our responsibilities or even our expectations where we often think it depends on us, but laying them at his feet, laying our head on the pillow and saying, "God, you're God, I'm giving you all of this. And if you let me wake up tomorrow, then I'll take it back up and I'll try again for you." But resting as an act of worship.
Marilyn Stewart: Now that's very interesting. That brings up another story to mind for me, in a few years ago, I've been praying about something for a long time. And I was weary of praying. I got up in the morning and I got ready. And by the time I got in to where my Bible was to read my Bible, I was frustrated, angry and I was saying, "God, why is it taking so long?" And my Scripture reading that day was John five, where Jesus heals the lame man. But He says, and these words just leapt off the page toward me. Jesus said, "I am always at work. And my Father is always at work." And that really spoke to me that day. And it was a little while later, but that prayer request was answered beautifully, but it was in God's time.
Tara Dew: Praise the Lord. That's right.
Marilyn Stewart: And so that is a definite principle that we need to remember and keep in mind that we can rest in that.
Tara Dew: That's right.
Marilyn Stewart: One last thing before, this will be my last question for today, because we're going to have you back again.
Tara Dew: Oh please do. I would love it.
Marilyn Stewart: But part of the reason that I think sometimes it's hard to be happy, maybe in a church or in a job or a relationship or whatever it is, is that there's criticism involved that a lot of times isn't fair. And a lot of times remarks are made when all the information isn't there. And if your husband is in a position, as yours is, as any pastor is, those moments come.
Tara Dew: Yes.
Marilyn Stewart: How do you deal with criticism?
Tara Dew: This is something that I feel like God, as I've grown in my walk with Him, He has grown me in because we started ministry when I was 20 years old. I mean, I was a brand new wife and we were thrown into a church and so I was a brand new pastor's wife. I was finishing college. And so those first several times that criticism came either toward me or to my husband, I took it personally. And because I was like, "How could they say this?" And it hurt really bad. I think the little childhood saying, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words don't hurt me. That's just plain old false, because words do hurt.
Marilyn Stewart: That's true. They do.
Tara Dew: Words can bring life or they can bring death. And so I can remember just being so hurt that somebody would say that or accuse us of that or criticize for this. And I can remember reading the story of Daniel and how in the lion's den, God shut the mouths of those lions and protected Daniel. And I started praying, "God, would you just shut the mouths of those who are trying to harm or to discourage or to slander in any way or accuse falsely." And when that criticism would come, I would just pray. I'd pray for them. And then I would pray that God would just shut the mouth. And sometimes it answered and sometimes it didn't.
Tara Dew: But then the other prayer request was, "God protect my heart. And don't let a root of bitterness grow up in me because of these harmful words." And I can remember learning the title for God in the Old Testament, that He is the God who sees. And so many times when someone would say something that hurt, I would immediately turn to prayer and say, "God, you are the God who sees me in this situation. You are the God who sees everything, you know the truth. You know what I've been accused or what my husband's been accused of. You know what they said, but God, I trust you in this. Keep my heart soft toward this person."
Tara Dew: Because I think what Satan would want is for us to grow bitter, to grow hard toward those people. Because John tells us, "This world will know that you're my disciples by your love." So if Satan can keep us from loving someone and he can root this bitterness in us that just grows up into anger or other things, well, then he's going to totally win. And so I would just pray, "God, you see all. Protect my heart, keep my heart soft and loving toward this person. Help me not to grow bitter." And that really helped me. So it was kind of a two-fold prayer, praying for them and that God would shut the mouths of the lions, but then also that He would keep my heart soft toward him, trusting him, and remembering that we serve God.
Tara Dew: We have an audience that of one that really matters. And I am a people pleaser. I want to make everybody happy, but coming back and saying, "God, if I please you, then I've been successful today. I've been faithful today." And that also really helped me because I'm not trying to do what I do for anybody else's approval or for anybody else's name or glory, it's for Him alone. And we're called to serve Him. And so just remembering, He is the God who sees. He is the God we serve. And He is the one who is still on his throne and can shut the mouths of the lions.
Marilyn Stewart: I think that is just excellent advice. And it is hard because criticism will come, no matter what kind of job you're in and no matter how great a job you seem to be doing, criticism is going to come. And I love that you have emphasized that we can trust God with the results and we can trust Him to be God. I'm going to stop there today.
Tara Dew: Okay.
Marilyn Stewart: I want us to come back and I would love to talk more about what our kids today need today.
Tara Dew: Oh, I would love that.
Marilyn Stewart: In today's society, when it's really hard to raise children. And I think our girls especially need some boosters on self-esteem at times, they need clear direction, as do our boys, but they are different needs.
Tara Dew: That's right. That's right. Well, I would love to come talk back that. We've got two boys and two girls at home. So thanks for having me today. And I look forward to coming back again.
Marilyn Stewart: Thank you. And we'll talk again. We are so glad you all are part of New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. Thank you.
Tara Dew: Thank you. We are too.
Joe Fontenot: Hey, it's Gary and Joe here again. Would you do us a favor?
Gary Myers: If you liked this podcast, go to iTunes and leave us a review.
Joe Fontenot: This would mean the world to us. Thanks.